Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Questions and comments about the SAX POC.
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Dave Blake
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Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby Dave Blake » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:53 pm

An idea has come up to not grade long flights for on-time. In other words, flights over say 6 hours (or some other amount) would not be graded for on-time.

What is your thoughts on this idea?

If this idea is implemented, at what length of flight hours should flights be not graded for on-time?
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby orac » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:43 pm

Dave,
I'd prefer to see all filghts continue to be graded, but more leniently, on a sliding scale above, say, 6 hours. Keep +/- 0.2 for anything up to 6.0 hours, +/- 0.3 for 6.1 - 9.0 hours, +/- 0.4 for 9.1 - 12.0 hours, +/- 0.5 for 12.1 or more hours. Six hours is probably the right threshold for such a change is it neatly isolates the Jim flights from the rest of the 737 flights and is about the point where the 767 and 747 flights become predominently intercontinental.

My two cents.
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby Nate R » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:06 pm

If you're going to change anything I'd agree with Orac and make long hauls more lenient but its not to big of a problem right now as it is.
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby Marty_Becker » Mon Apr 21, 2008 8:51 pm

I brought this up with DV about this about an hour before you made the post. He said you and him talked about this earlier in the day. Great minds think alike. :D I like Neil's idea of being lenient. The five-six hour mark would be my suggestion. One thing to keep in mind regarding this, is that winds over the oceans are not supported very well. AS6 has its own algorithm for this, since accurate wind report data is limited over the oceans.
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby chriszdc » Mon Apr 21, 2008 10:19 pm

I like Neil's idea. The sliding scale starting at 6hr is good with me. Seasonal differences in wind also justify this I think.
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby RichW » Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:28 pm

I really the idea of a sliding scale for long flights. There are so many varialbes in oceanic flights. I try to use the most current NATS and depending on time of year there could be as much as an hour difference in the projected and actual times.

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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby kdundon » Wed May 07, 2008 9:50 pm

I like the sliding scale also. Ken
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby David Vega » Wed May 14, 2008 12:06 pm

Fellow Captains,

The new on-time grading is in effect. Expect to be graded as suggested by Neil on this thread. Hopefully this will encourage some of you to start flying those long flights.

If you see any errors with the grading, please email or post here.

Have fun,

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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby SAX775 » Sat Jun 28, 2008 8:07 pm

I don't think I understand the penalty or bonus that is associated with on time arrivals. I have read the Ops Manual and this thread and while it states that you use an on time arrival formula it does not specify what actions are taken for early or late arrivals.

I use Activesky X for my weather and RadarContact 4 for my ATC. In RC4 I have ATC and weather delays turned on. This means that if ATC detects (or randomly generates a delay) into the holding pattern I go. This happen last night on my return from KDEC to KSTL. ATC randomly generated a delay into KSTL and into the holding patterns at TOY I went. Once you get that close to an airport there is no more wiggle room to make up time so I had to just eat the delay totaling 0.3. After release from TOY I flew the B190 to its maximum performance but there was no making up time. (Real torque limit is 86% for 1700 RPM and 94% at 1500 RPM and that was my limit. You have a 5 minute 100% torque take off limit, but I use that for take-off and when required during single engine ops.)

In the real world I have experienced enroute and arrivals delays plenty of times. It seems that they never occur when we are out training, but always when passengers are in the back. All you can do is explain to the passengers the situation and let them know you are doing everything you can to make up for lost time.

I think RC4 or even VATSIM to a lesser degree, offers this very likely real scenario and because it does happen in real world I chose to accept the flight. Now I wonder what I need to do as far as pay the piper. In the real world if someone would ask, usually rare unless someone very important was in the back, I just had to provide a verbal; ATC delay, weather, departure delay, passenger delay (I have had passengers arrive late and still expect an on time arrival), ect.
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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby David Vega » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:01 pm

Ken,

Again, welcome to SAX. There's no penalty for not being on-time, nor there's a bonus for being on-time. It's just a way to optimize the flight set as a goal for the pilots to seek. Those motivated would use optimal amounts of fuel, flight level, and technique. Even though some pilots would do their best in these areas, some times their flights are late because weather or traffic. This, as you already know, are the two main causes for flight delays. In such cases, there's nothing to do but being late.

We're continually looking for ideas to improve our VA experience.

Regards,

Dave Vega

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Re: Should Long-haul Flights Be Graded On-time?

Postby SAX775 » Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:36 am

Dave,

Thank you, I was just trying to understand the implications of being late as I didn't want to have my virtual salary docked. :D I also see a group of pilots with a large number of high percentage of on-time flights and wanted to make sure I was not missing anything.

-Ken
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