POLL: FSFK Score and Critique

[Dave Blake]

How do you feel about having your FS Flight Keeper flight scores and critique displayed for any SAX pilots to see?

This poll will last for 15 days.

Do you feel this is too much like a competition to see who can be the best? I can tell you that this was not the intention. It was intended to give pilots feedback to encourage improvement in their skills. But maybe we were wrong. Is this taking the "fun" out of flying?

Your comments are welcomed.

[SAX792]

If someone wants to display his scores, that's fine. I would not want to stop him.

I just do not want my own scores displayed. FSFK gives me plenty of feedback in private.

Danny

[sax767]

That's it. I quit!

Bud
767

[Bob4th]

I originally answered, "Do not care," to the poll. However, upon reflection I do have some thoughts.

SAX is definitely not what it was when I started back in the day (12/31/1995 to be exact). I think there has to be a balance between the quest for reality and the fact that this is, indeed, a game. The more we do things like eliminate accelerated time for intercontinental or international flights, and now posting our scores, it seems to me as though our VIRTUAL airline is rapidly moving toward a level of realism in which the fun kind of runs down the drain like the dirty water in the morning shower. In short, that balance between realistic simulation and fun is becoming blurred.

Some enlightened soul might be tempted to say to me, "Hey, we're trying to be as real as it gets. So if you don't like it, buzz off." However, I've been a part of this VA for a very long time (473 flights/2050.8 hours) and I'm starting to have some questions about how long it will be before we start ratcheting up the standards to the absurd level of "Any flight critique score lower than X will not be considered," or "Any comment of X will disqualify that flight." Maybe we could even reach the point where we start measuring G-forces throughout the flight, too. Or, maybe that patch of turbulence caused an intoxicated passenger to pee on the wall of the lavatory and that will disqualify the flight. Again, at what point do we draw the line between reality and escapist entertainment? After all, we don't really draw paychecks from SAX, do we? (If so, the airline owes me a big check.

I see it this way: In my real job, I deal with people in high stress situations all day long. For me, my VA should emphasize fun over form. You might disagree and want to post something in response to this, hoping to change my mind. Don't bother.

Further, I noticed that another Command Captain posted the following response to this poll: "That's it. I quit!" I suppose you could say, "Oh, well. I guess he just didn't want to share our pursuit of 'reality.'" However, for a person to make it to the level of Command Captain means that he has put in a lot of hours and a lot of flights with this airline. When we see someone like SAX767 (with over 3,000 hours) calling it quits, then perhaps it's time for us to reevaluate. Again, if you want to spout off disagreeing with me, don't bother. Instead, take the time to think about this: Where is the appropriate line between reality and fun?

Bob Jones
Command Captain
SAX464

[kenyapilot]

I don't like the FSFK score and critique being posted as I don't think they are accuate. I have had a problem with the rating used for adjusting barometric pressure which is not properly recorded by FSFK for some aircraft. This is acknowledged by the software author. In addition, this probably creates unnecessary competition in striving to be better than someone else and this should not be the purpose of our VA. It is best to not post. We can see these scores ourselves and use them to make whatever adjustments we care to make.

Roy
SAX680

[Dave Blake]

I am becoming concerned at that appears to be happening to SunAir Express. From what I am hearing is that flying for SAX is not as fun it used to be.

This is from the OPS Manual:

" ... What attracted most simulator pilots to SunAir Express were the popularity of ATP, the desire to learn more about IFR flight and airline operations. Realism in design and function thus has a priority with SunAir Express pilots. The community interaction between fellow flight enthusiasts also plays a major roll in SunAir Express. And of course, high on our list of priorities is having fun while flying our flight simulators."

Somehow we have to find a balance between how much realism we want SunAir Express to have and still have fun.

What can we do to bring back the fun and still have realism? How much realism do you want SAX to have?

[David Vega]

Good post Bob. In an earlier posting, Dave Blake said this VA belonged to all of us. He's using all tools available to get all opinions heard: polls, questions, etc. It is regretable that some have reached conclusions before a final decision has been reached, and I hope those decisions are reconsidered.

We all get to shape the VA's policies by our vote and comments. Roy is correct, there are known issues with FSFK reporting, and I can personally see, and respect, how the reporting by itself could be taken as competition more than feedback based on its public nature.

I really hope we all take a moment to think, vote, express our opinions, and at the end of this chapter, continue enjoying being part of SunAir.

Dave Vega
SAX702

[Al O'Brien]

Possibly competition is in the eyes of the the
individual. I personally like FSFK for all of the info
that it gives on flights by both myself and others,that
way I get some ideas on how to be a better sim
pilot, and thus enjoy flightsiming more. The
touchdown rate may have a bit of competition tied
into it but hey! mine's bigger then yours was always
part of flying anyway. Flight siming for Sunair is
way less competitive and rules oriented then golf
and not near as frustrating.
Al SAX 067

[Bob4th]

Dave B.,

I actually have some ideas that might make things more enjoyable for me, at least. I'll throw them out for your consideration.

1. I think it would be great if SAX shifted from the basic a/c structure that we've had since the ATP days and moved to a more flexible structure. A good example of this is Westwind VA, which has their a/c grouped into different classes. In their system one can find B737s and A320 series a/c grouped together, B757/767 and A330's grouped (MD-11s could fit nicely in this group too), and the really big iron grouped together. I have to tattle on myself a bit as I already do this in practice. I have invested a good amount of time in some high quality add-ons, love to fly them, and - since I don't fly on-line, will substitute, for example an E175 for a CRJ, or an A318 for an A320, and so on. I don't know how much change this would require in the POC, but one could book flights by class and fly anything that falls in that class. As for repaints, I'm sure we could find some good painters who could create a livery without much problem.

2. I hate to bring this up again, but I really don't like the restriction on accelerated time, particularly on the long flights. When I do long flights now, I'm kind of forced to take off early in the evening, set a cruise altitude and then go to bed. My ATC program, Radar Contact, will automatically pause 200 miles from destination. I like the acceleration (up to 4x) because I can stay with any flight and manage it properly. I'm also aware that VATSIM allows pilots to fly cruise portions at accelerated time with controller clearance. Personally, I couldn't care less if someone wanted to fly the entire trip at whatever speed they wanted. However, I do think that a modification could be made to FSFK to only log ACTUAL hours flown. This would be a fair compromise in that those who wanted to fly real time would get credit for real time. Those who wanted to fly in accelerated would be credit for ACTUAL time flown rather than credit for the clock time of the flight.

3. Personally, I like FSFK. It's an incredibly versatile program and a great improvement over FSACARS. The more I think about this, anyone who wants to know any Pilot's rating and critique only has to click on the number in the BLK section and they can find out any detail about a fellow pilot's performance that they want. I'm not sure that anything additional needs to be reported beyond that. I'm also not really concerned about my fellow pilots' performance, provided they walk away from each landing.

4. There are a few other issues, but these are the biggies to me. No matter what we decide, I'll stick with SAX. After 15 years, where else am I going to go?

5. Dave B., I think you do a great job. I've never met you in person, although we've exchanged some e-mails over the years. I've always found you to be courteous and really concerned about the satisfaction of your pilots. Thanks for all your efforts. In fact, I recommend that we give you a 25% raise for 2011.

Dave V., thanks for the kind words and all of your efforts, too!

Bob Jones
Command Captain
SAX 464

[SAX792]

Thank you all for the comments. It's been a good learning experience for me.

I'm starting to have some questions about how long it will be before we start ratcheting up the standards to the absurd level of "Any flight critique score lower than X will not be considered," or "Any comment of X will disqualify that flight."

We already have some of that. The SunAir Express Operations Manual plainly states "Flight logs with a touchdown rate harder than -700 feet per minute will not be accepted."

[Dave Blake]

Thank you all for the comments. It's been a good learning experience for me.

I'm starting to have some questions about how long it will be before we start ratcheting up the standards to the absurd level of "Any flight critique score lower than X will not be considered," or "Any comment of X will disqualify that flight."

We already have some of that. The SunAir Express Operations Manual plainly states "Flight logs with a touchdown rate harder than -700 feet per minute will not be accepted."

Danny: For your information, the maximum touchdown rate of -700 FT/MN was agreed upon by a clear majority of the pilots in this recent poll. http://sunairexpress.com/saxforum/viewt ... f=34&t=929.

[Marty_Becker]

I wonder what the comments of the recent posts would be if FSPassengers was chosen as a mechanism to submit flight reports instead of FSFK. Many VAs are going this route. Not only do you get critiqued like FSFK, but your passengers have a voice. In addition, you would have to deal with random emergencies of all types.

http://www.fspassengers.com/?action=va
http://www.fspassengers.com/?action=va& ... ght=386269

FSPassengers comment examples:

-Were anxious because they flew over a war risk zone.
-Is relieved to have landed safely after the extreme weather he experienced during landing.
-Were irritated by the excess G-forces.
-Didn't like your shaky flight (some excess G-forces).
-Were terrified by the last dive before the crash.
-Were terrified because of the problem during flight.
-107 passengers aboard
-107 killed
-0 injured
-Pilot and flight crew were killed
-Hated that they did not see the entire movie.
-Wonder if they landed or if they crashed (hard landing).
-Didn't like your shaky flight
-Were irritated because they were hungry sometime during the flight.
-Are relieved to have landed safely after the extreme weather they experienced during landing.
-Were angry because you made what seemed to be a dangerous landing.
-Are angry because they didn't reach their planned destination.
-Were terrified by your "dive of death".

Does the grass look greener on the other side of the fence? No, the same fertilizer is used. It is just a different cow.

Every VA has something different to offer or its own little niche. That's competition. VAs come and go. There is only one that has been around since the start of the idea and that is this one. And it has survived all these years because of the pilots that started on day one on the Prodigy network in May 1992, ALL the pilots that have come and gone and ALL the pilots that are here today. Remember that the whole idea of a virtual airline is to simulate a structured airline, not a flying club. And only you can choose what best fits you.

An old flight instructor of mine said, "Make every flight a learning experience, strive for improvement and have fun doing it." Feedback of all kinds, positive, negative, critiques, test results, checkrides, performance reviews, etc., provide information for learning and improvement. How you use it is up to you. I personally would rather have the problem of too much than not enough.

[Jim Tilley]

Having finally hooked into FSFK I must admit I love it...Any daily routine or "rut", profession or "job", ultimately can lead to lackadaisical work habits... My flying habits were effected by our previous recording system (FASCars) as each movement I performed was not recorded, thus leading me to believe that all was well with my flight and pilot decisions. I received a rude awakening when the "black box" woke me up and forced me to sharpen my skills to perform a safe flight from takeoff to shutdown. I have thick skin. I want to see my performance recorded and I want to better my flight knowledge. When I view the better score percentages of the Sunair pilots, it pushes me to better my scores. To me this is fun and I enjoy the challenge. Any support I have asked for from Dave, Marty and Dave et al has been supplied to me without criticism, complaint or ridicule and I appreciate it as I still have alot to learn about flying. For me, keep the scores coming. The worse they may get, the more I learn. Thanks for running an awesome airline. JT

[Dave Blake]

How do you feel about having your FS Flight Keeper flight scores and critique displayed for any SAX pilots to see?

I just want to make clear that when I commented about having the FSFK flight log critique being displayed, I only meant in the current form where by viewing a pilot's FSFK log one can see the critique along with all the other data that is sent to the POC with a flight log. I had no intent of changing how the critique would be displayed.