sax767 wrote:Hi Dave!
I see this issue with mixed emotions.
..... However, you can get carried away if you take that too far......
I think a lot of people join VAs to have some sort of organization to their "hobby"......
.......unfortunate hard landing.
Disallowing filing of flights ending with a hard landing is the first step in making SAX a job and not a hobby.
..............
Bud
SAX767
There is no issue here, it is simple concern being raised by the company, like the concern for pilots who might want to X4 the sim to build hours quicker, they re told to look for another virtual airline, it is the way the company see it, like a policy.There is so many virtual airlines, and none is working or having the same policies.Some dont mind the sim X time, some rather not having it, like some dont mind the TDR(?), some see it as a value of their pilots, etc.So nothing is being taken too far or carried away, it is just SAX call.
If some pilots want to make their virtual airline a hobby, it is down to them but they still need to adhere to the VA POM, NOTAMS, IFR Rules, RVSMs, Aircraft Operation Procedures, etc, etc, etc, etc, .....otherwise what is the point joigning a VA? People join a virtual airline for fun?And why take the entrance exam, the checkride flight especially when it is said that a
TDR greater than 500fpm would mean a FAIL.
We all see that SAX made it clear right from the beginnning
People need to remember or realise that a VA is to reflect REAL operation as much as possible, depending of the VA, and REAL include good TDRs.
And there is no unfortunate landing, that doesnt exist, nor a fortunate landing (in normal conditions of course, Im not talking in an emergency or something like this where it is obviously a complete other story, and not going to debate over it), no matter after a traffic pattern or after a 20 hours or 100hours flight, this is no luck, this is skill, a landing is the pilot skills, not a good luck charm, that is why there is decision point before landing (minimums!), to decide if landing is possible safely, ie when a pilot say "land" after the decision point, he doesnt say it hoping that luck will be on his side, he says it because all conditions are met to land safely (right approach path, speed, stabilized, etc, ..) even if he 's really exhausted after a 11h flight.
Beside, I dont think SAX would like to be seen as a hobby VA, otherwise this TDR poll wouldnt be, and I wouldnt be writing this.
And for Marty, small corrections:
stabilized 3deg slope approach, means a 5% slope approach, so just time your GS
NOT your IAS by 5, ie for the cessna 172 GS=90kt on a 3deg slope >>90x5=450fpm and not 500 fpm, and the 737 GS=120kt >>120x5=600fpm and not 650fpm.
So for instance,if on final you have a headwind of say 12kt gusting 20kt, and VREF=120kt, your approach speed would be VREF+1/2WIND+FULL GUST, in that case 120+6+20>>146kt but that would be the IAS not the GS, the GS would be 146-12=134 then the VS should be 134x5=670fpm and NOT 146x5=730fpm.
A good rule is to get your IASx5 value and always take some fpm off that value as we always land in the wind, ie if you have an approach VS(from IAS) of 650, use say 630-620, if you have headwind, if you have tailwind, you d use 670-680, but as we normally land into wind, it would normally always be lower than the IASx5 value, after how much to deduct is down to appreciation, depending on the IAS and wind speed, and as everybody say it s all down to experience, no matter if hobby, real or simulation.
And also, we do not iddle at +50ft on an airliner, not even on a light aircraft.
At +50ft(15m), we just pass the runway threshold(when following ILS or VASI lights), I am sure you do not iddle when passing the threshold, you side watch as you pass the threshold to evaluate your slope to flare the aircraft.
When you pass the threshold(around +50ft), you start reducing your rate of descend NOT the power, and certainly NOT iddle, or you will land way under VREF(VREF as everybody know is the touchdown speed,havent you wondered why V2=VREF or VREF=V2?) ,ie if your fpm was 640 before thresh bring it down to say 450 by gently pulling the yoke, that s the start of the flare, then should iddle at+10ft(3m), 3m, thats a lot.Stand on your feet and imagine 3m(10ft), and compare that to the size of an airliner, and then imagine 15m(50ft), thats 5 times the 3m you visualised, and now visualise an airliner especially a 747 iddling at 15m above the ground, then take the same 747 iddling at 3m, you tell me.
We dont land airliners like a cessna 172: A cessna 172, we can "stall land" it, an airliner we dont, we land airliners at VREF!(sometimes it is not possible to VREF when high winds)
And to land an airliner at VREF, we must have the right approach speed to begin with, lets say VREF=120kt and approach speed is 127, between the thres crossing and touchdown we must loose the extra 7kt, thats where the flare and the pilot skills come into the picture.
An easy example:
VREF =122
App SPD =132
FPM =640
After passing the thres you gently pull the yoke to bring the FPM down to let say around 450, during this you loose let say about 4kt, your SPD is now 128, you continue the flare to loose another 100 fpm bringing it down to 350fpm, you then loose about another 2kt, your SPD is now 126, so if you hold it like this until 10ft, you re good for a VREF touchdown, at 10ft you iddle and do the final flare: the combination iddle+gentle flare would make the remaining extra 6kt to disappear and reduce even further the FPM of another 50-100fpm bringing the TDR to about 300-250 with VREF=120.
So the rule is to always be at +10ft with SPD=VREF+5 about.
I hope it helps